67-68 gt 500's why wasn't the 427 used?

[cornbinder]

just wondering why shelbt didn't put 427's into the gt 500's of 67-68? i realize that mid 68 the cobra jet was used to become the "KR" wouldn't the 427 have been the engine to use instead of the PI 428? or at least optional. i know they installed a 427 in one promotional car for use with the tire companies or something like that, but that was only 1. any body have any insight on that?

[Coralsnake]

It was way to frickin expensive? It was a racing engine that was worth as much a Mustang (or more). The Mustang never offered the 427, so it's logical that the Shelby would not have it either.

[TLEA]

Originally Posted by Coralsnake

It was way to frickin expensive? It was a racing engine that was worth as much a Mustang (or more). The Mustang never offered the 427, so it's logical that the Shelby would not have it either.

Bingo.

[thefordshow]

On the other hand, Mercury cougars had the GTE's with the non solid lifter 427 motor. [Could have been an Us vs Them thing].

[cornbinder]

yeah that doesn't make any sense. 427's were optional in the galaxies and fairlane's, 68 cougars, full size mercury's too. hell you could get em in station wagons too, so i'm not sure i'm buying the too expensive reasoning. chryslers hemi wasn't too expensive?? the 428 scj and 429 scj boss 302, boss 351 would have been expensive also , and ford made them available in the mustang.what would have made the 427 so expensive vs.a solid lifter hi-po 396 chevy, or six pack 440 chrysler or the hemi. even if it was expensive so what, you charge the customer the extra $$ if he so chose to check off that engine option. so the question still is why didn't ford offer the 427 available as an option in the mustang? but available in pretty much everything else but the falcon. especially when the hi-po 390 didn't hold a candle to the 396 chevy or 383 dodge. realistically the hi-po 289 would run real close to the 390 nipping at it's heels the whole way.even a passenger car 428 pi with a hotter cam and a little more compression would have been better than the pathetic (390 high performance) that's my debate on the 427 being to expensive to be made available in the mustang. moore to it than too expensive.

[427 XR-7]

Two factors went into the decision to not roll out the 427 extensively. One factor was certainly the expense of it. Secondly was the fact that 427's, being so thin cylinder walled, needed a separate assembly line at the foundry to cool them slowly. Bottom line.....they were a pain in the ass to produce.

More than half of the GT-E production with 427's took place on February 23, 1968. All were built in Dearborn and they likely had to disrupt regular production in order to build these cars. Disrupting production was frowned on. In the Winter of '68 it was known the 428 CJ was coming. It wasn't a PITA to produce, hence , the death of the 427. The 68 Cougar is the only car to get a 427 that year and the last of the era.

I own a VIN stamped engine from a 427 GTE. Anyone know where I can get an original GT-E body/parts? Please call me 248-867-3522 Ray

[d_ford]

As I understand it, the 427 WAS to be an optional engine in the 68 mustang using an engine code W in the VIN. It was to be the hydraulic lifter version but none were ever ordered or produced according to Kevin Marti.

[cornbinder]

good points and this sheds a little light on the subject, but fact or folklore?

[Bob Gaines]

As was mention by another the 427 was apparently a pain to produce and also expensive. Because of those two factors the 427 was in short supply.It is a documented fact that a large number of 427 Cobras actually came with 428 PI engines because of cost and availability. The 427 Cobras produced in England at AC for European consumption(COB + COX) did not get 427's or even 428's but the tried and true 289 Hipo partially because of availability. Back in the states the bean counters were overruled later on as more 427 engines were secured and used to the end of 67 Cobra production. It is also a matter of record that in 1967 CS thought about offering a 427 version of the GT500 but the cost of the 67 GT500 and the cost to retrofit the 427 engine caused the retail price of the car to approach very close to the cost of a 427 Cobra.The Cobra was considered pricey back in the day and they didn't walk off the floor ether. Because of this retail selling price only a couple factory 427 GT500's were produced and sold which definitely substantiates Coralsnakes statement. The cheaper to produce 428 Cobrajet was the obvious choice to be included in the Mustang car line over the 427 . Price may not be the only reason for the none use but It is a safe bet it is the main reason IMHO. Bob

[cornbinder]

ok. with that it's more clear as to why they didn't offer the 427 now. i didn't realize the 427 was such a pain to produce and so short in supply. the retrofit wouldn't have been a problem as the 427 would have bolted up to the same transmission as the 390, and possibly different exhaust manifolds, or cast iron headers?? anyhow are the few 427 gt 500's made out there anywhere, and documented?? that would deffinetely be a neat piece of shelby history.

[Bob Gaines]

Originally Posted by cornbinder

ok. with that it's more clear as to why they didn't offer the 427 now. i didn't realize the 427 was such a pain to produce and so short in supply. the retrofit wouldn't have been a problem as the 427 would have bolted up to the same transmission as the 390, and possibly different exhaust manifolds, or cast iron headers?? anyhow are the few 427 gt 500's made out there anywhere, and documented?? that would deffinetely be a neat piece of shelby history.

Yes ,the 427 equipped 67 GT500's are accounted for .The one referred to as the Super Snake In the registry is reasonably restored and the others are in the process last time I heard.Bob

[Cobrafixer]

Does anyone remember the number of 427 Cobra's that actually came with the 428 motors? I remember hearing that a good portion of them did not get the side oiler due to supply issues!

[cornbinder]

that's a good question too on the cobra's/ 427's. that super snake as it was referred too that's great to hear that those cars are accounted for. i've read in some different places that "the super snake" gt 500 with the 427 would absolutely scream. makes you wonder if ol shelby tweaked that particular engine oor not. or were the 427's already heavily tweaked from ford. you know there is a guy in ohio that had a s.o.h.c 427 installed in a 66 a-c cobra, a friend of mine saw it and heard it run. i'll find out if he ever got any pics of it.or any more info. that also leads to another "what if???" if shelby decided to stick twin paxtons on a 427, ya gotta wonder if they ever tried shoving a 427 sohc in anything?? it makes me wonder anyhow, or what other (behind the scenes shannegians) may have went on. i know they did shelby ize 3 428 cj cougars!!

[mbrouder]

Could someone please describe the major differences between the 427 and 428? I'm curious about the bore and stroke of the two also.

[Bob Gaines]

Originally Posted by cornbinder

that's a good question too on the cobra's/ 427's. that super snake as it was referred too that's great to hear that those cars are accounted for. i've read in some different places that "the super snake" gt 500 with the 427 would absolutely scream. makes you wonder if ol shelby tweaked that particular engine oor not. or were the 427's already heavily tweaked from ford. you know there is a guy in ohio that had a s.o.h.c 427 installed in a 66 a-c cobra, a friend of mine saw it and heard it run. i'll find out if he ever got any pics of it.or any more info. that also leads to another "what if???" if shelby decided to stick twin paxtons on a 427, ya gotta wonder if they ever tried shoving a 427 sohc in anything?? it makes me wonder anyhow, or what other (behind the scenes shannegians) may have went on. i know they did shelby ize 3 428 cj cougars!!

The Cougar thing is a urban legend. Someone my have Shelby ized some Cougars but it wasn't Shelby. The Shelby American Automobile club has no record to substantiate a Shelby ized Cougar. There was a recent magazine article with a self proclaimed lost Shelby ized Cougar. It is a complete fabrication. The magazine didn't do it's home work. The person who fabricated the car knew just enough to be dangerous but not enough that any knowledgeable Shelby historian could see the parts claimed to be installed by Shelby were recent reproductions or were from other year Shelby's and not the 69 Shelby it was supposed to be a sister to. There were a few parts that were used on 69/70 Shelby's that came from Cougars. That is probably where the idea for the poser came from. Bob

[thefordshow]

The bottom line is that mercury still made it happen with the early GT-E's. PIA or not cougars were made with 427's, maybe not the best idea at the time, but with a strike I'm sure production was more than upside down. With the new 428CJ motor I'm sure it made life better, with mercury taking full advantage of the new power plant vs sticking with the 427 later in the year.

[cornbinder]

Originally Posted by Bob Gaines

The Cougar thing is a urban legend. Someone my have Shelby ized some Cougars but it wasn't Shelby. The Shelby American Automobile club has no record to substantiate a Shelby ized Cougar. There was a recent magazine article with a self proclaimed lost Shelby ized Cougar. It is a complete fabrication. The magazine didn't do it's home work. The person who fabricated the car knew just enough to be dangerous but not enough that any knowledgeable Shelby historian could see the parts claimed to be installed by Shelby were recent reproductions or were from other year Shelby's and not the 69 Shelby it was supposed to be a sister to. There were a few parts that were used on 69/70 Shelby's that came from Cougars. That is probably where the idea for the poser came from. Bob

really. i'll have to dig that up. that's a myth? i read that mag. article in muscle car review. a red 69 cougar conv. with a factory 428 cj automatic with spoke shelby wheels, f&r swaybars, shelby steering wheel, a plaque on the dash saying especially made for carroll shelby. ok well that's to bad to hear that someone mocked up something like that.