Shelby and SAAC at Odds

[rsimkins]

Originally Posted by tesgt350

I totally agree...... with out the Members, there is no Club. But the Members do not take any of the Burdens like the Board/Officers do when it comes to the Law.
David.

I'm not sure if anybody is really a club member since SAAC is not the non-profit corporation it once was. I think that people who join are "customers" regardless of the word "Club" in the title.

[Magstar]

I have to agree with Roy its a business and I have heard the Leaders at SAAC take home a huge wage. I do apreciate what they do for these cars we all enjoy.If it was still nonprofit SAI would'nt be bothering with any of this .Sometimes history is way better left as history ,if that makes any sense?

[Magstar]

Just another thought is SAI doing anything about the Shelby Dodge Auto Club is there license being renewed?

[rsimkins]

Originally Posted by Magstar

I have to agree with Roy its a business and I have heard the Leaders at SAAC take home a huge wage. I do apreciate what they do for these cars we all enjoy.If it was still nonprofit SAI would'nt be bothering with any of this .Sometimes history is way better left as history, if that makes any sense?

Just to clarify, I'm not trying to take away any recognition whatsoever for the hard work that SAAC has done to preserve the history of our favorite automobile. However, SAAC leadership no longer qualify as volunteers. They do deserve compensation for their efforts. How much is open to debate, only the marketplace can determine that. As long as they are doing a good job in the eyes of their customers, they will continue to be in business. The registrars and reps on the other hand receive no compensation for their work. My understanding is that they have to meet their own expenses. They recover some of the money they put out from their own pocket by charging for copies of original factory paperwork they have in their possession. They do it for the love of the marque and should be supported in this.

[tesgt350]

Originally Posted by Magstar

I have to agree with Roy its a business and I have heard the Leaders at SAAC take home a huge wage. I do apreciate what they do for these cars we all enjoy.If it was still nonprofit SAI would'nt be bothering with any of this .Sometimes history is way better left as history ,if that makes any sense?

Well, if you would think about it: according to some people on here, there are well over 5000 Members of SAAC that they have to keep up with, and they have to keep up with and maintain the Paper Work and Information on everyones Car PLUS work on the Shelby Registry. They put together the Snake Bite and put out a yearly Magazine, put together the SAAC Shows PLUS a whole lot more. If they also hold down a Full Time Job, they are miricle workers to boot.

[vernonestes]

They deserve at least some wage to do what they do....most of those guys devoted their lives to this stuff.
Futhermore, i dont think they take home very large wages.
Best Regards,
Vern

[Blazinsaddles]

Let me start off by saying that I just mailed in my SAAC renewal form and fee for the upcoming year. I have been a member of SAAC for a number of years because I liked being a part of the the sanctioned body but that does not mean that I am pleased with them. I do think and hope they will continue to have their place in the "Shelby" world but to do so they need to review what they are doing and make some much needed changes.

I have had a handful of Shelbys in my life and dealt with SAAC on a couple of them and had one good experience and one really bad experience. The 67-68 registrar was excellent to work with while the 69-70 registrar, well lets just say it was a memorable experience. He had never laid eyes on my car or it's documentation but yet he seemed to take great pride in letting me know that he knew more than me about it. He contested what I had original documentation to prove. In the end, I just quit communicating with him and vowed never to play in his sandlot again.

Furthermore, SAAC wanted all of my paperwork at no cost to them but they wanted me to pay them for their paperwork. I did it one time but never again. The Shelby that I now own will never be updated with SAAC and that is the way I like it. I don't need at least one guy jacked up on testosterone to tell me what my car is and is not.

To look at SAAC from another angle, I just joined the Fairlane club for $35 and have already received a very nice magazine that comes out more than once a year and they have a nice website as well. Where does all of SAAC's proceeds go? Definitely not to periodicals and technology.

Again, I hope that SAAC survives but they need to change some of their philosophys and learn to treat their paying members a little better. I know I am not one of the ones stationed on the Mother Ship but I do pay my dues and I do own a Shelby and I would hope they would treat us lowly no-name members a little better.

Oh well, if nothing else, I feel better but man are my fingers tired!

[bigbluesnake]

Ditto to Blazinsaddles! I too am a SAAC member at 40.00/year. If they have 5000 members, that equates to 200,000 dollars/ year just in membership fees. What do I get?, very little. a Snakebite and maybe a Shelby American magazine. You pay dearly for anything you get from SAAC or participate in.
WHY did CS pull SAAC licensing? WHY does CS want his original paper work back?
First of all, when Rick Kopec and his Associates received all the original paperwork, literature, cancelled SA checks, etc., It should have been all archived. Needless to say it has "NOT BEEN" Well, Rick and his assoc started selling it on E-bay. As most of you probably seen the checks alone were bringing very good MONEY. Who's pocket did this go into? E-bay name JOLLYROGE was a big seller of the checks.
Secondly: SAAC hosed CS, he doesn't like it one bit, he trusted them with the original lit etc. and look what they have done. I would say pulling the CS lic.is appropiate
Lastly: Due to the Litigation involved, they are choosing to remain mum on the topic until. YOUR TYPICAL COP-OUT
Come on SAAC lets step up to the plate and tell all the truth.

[roddster]

Another member chimes in:
I've been a SAAC member since the middle 80's. Although the name has "Club" in it, funny how I don't recall any elections. AND, I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
The base guys put it all together, and, if they managed a way to figure out how to get a pay check out of it, more power to them. Nobody would have done a equal to or better job of it. I'm a satisfied customer.

Snakebite Bulletins: same folks aways selling the same stuff with some new additions. And it keeps the members updated.
The Shelby American magazine, which used to come, what, every 90 days, is "maybe" a yearly. Must be a lot less to say. Besides, in the last 7-8 years, it's all about C/s and less about the cars.

Selling stuff that CS gave-loaned-borrowed to them, if that is true, well oops to them. Don't forget, CS has always been about his money. And, I don't have a problem with that.

[67GT500#2100]

Originally Posted by bigbluesnake

Well, Rick and his assoc started selling it on E-bay. As most of you probably seen the checks alone were bringing very good MONEY. Who's pocket did this go into? E-bay name JOLLYROGE was a big seller of the checks.

I am pretty sure E-bays "JOLLYROGE" is Curt Vogt of Cobra Automotive and he has admitted on this forum that he has sold things on e-bay recieved from Rick.

[Charley]

Some seem to assume that Carroll loaned all the stuff to Kopec but isn't there also the belief that it was given to him ? If someone gave me all that stuff I probably would have sold the non record type of stuff years ago. We need to save his old checks why ?

[zrayr]

Originally Posted by Charley

Some seem to assume that Carroll loaned all the stuff to Kopec but isn't there also the belief that it was given to him ? If someone gave me all that stuff I probably would have sold the non record type of stuff years ago. We need to save his old checks why ?

In reference to whether the documents were "given or loaned":

This is a direct quote from page 11 of the 1997 Shelby American World Registry

"....Carroll Shelby was extremely generous in allowing the club not only full access to his records, but Kopec was allowed to take anything he felt was of interest. In return, Kopec promised to take care of it and return it to Shelby whenever he requested it ... as long as there was time to make photo copies of it before turning it over. Eventually Kopec would ship over a thousand pounds of documents and records back to club headquarters in Connecticut......"

The above quote (from SAAC's own registry) makes it very clear that all the documents were on loan, to be returned upon request. period.

The sale of anything, checks or whatever, looks wrong to me.

Z. Ray

[tesgt350]

My take on the situation is this: Carroll Shelby is the oldest living person to survive a DOUBLE Transplant. He is a Legend who has created some cool cars. Carroll Shelby is ALSO a Businessman and always has been. As much as it pains me to say this, (but I have to for this), he is not going to live forever, he knows that. From everything that I have seen or read, about what has been happening over the past few years, Carroll Shelby is preparing for the future. He is growing his empire for the future BUT is also wanting to consolidate his holdings (so to speak) to make it easier for the next generation Shelby to take the reigns. He is trying to make the CSCF self sufficient, he is limiting how many License’s are issued, he is retrieving all that is his to be accounted for and documented and he is surrounding himself with people who will lookout for the best interest of his Company, Amy Boylan, Gary Patterson, Ford Motor Company and yes Barrett-Jackson and there are others (I would even bet a few SAAC Board Members).
I have asked this question before and no one has answered it yet….. Does SAAC really need to be Licensed now to survive and grow? I don’t think so. As many loyal Members as there are, it will take a heck of a lot more then losing the Licensing to bring it down. How many people have joined SAAC because of YOU. I know several people have joined because of ME, and being Licensed by Carroll Shelby Licensing had nothing to do with it. SAAC is a great Club with a wealth of information. That information will not vanish because the Licensing has ended or the Papers were returned. When the clock strikes Midnight, SAAC will not turn into a Pumpkin. I truly believe that it could very well be possible that SAAC will consider merging with Team Shelby in the near future.

[rare_ram]

Originally Posted by Magstar

Just another thought is SAI doing anything about the Shelby Dodge Auto Club is there license being renewed?

From what I've heard Shelby bailed on SDAC years ago.

[amyb]

Guys like any relationship, there are bumps and hills. When two entities care enough or really want something to work out, you go the extra mile to do so. As you can see by the posts above, there are issues, deep issues , hurt feeling, sold goods, etc.

I do think SAAC is bigger then it's owners that the registrar's have done an amazing job. I think Team Shelby will do well also. Sometimes you just have to move on. We as Shelby will always support the members and any regional group that wants us. This is supposed to be fun. Life is too short to argue, accuse, threaten, etc.,....


Enjoy your cars, life is short.


Amy

[jollyroge]

SAAC Rescued the factory documents back in the 1980’s. If they had not they would have wound up in the wrong hands. Carroll was giving his stuff away and was asking former Shelby American employees to do the same to who ever came along with a story about a museum. Especially one individual from Texas.
This was all trash to Shelby and it was about to be discarded in one way or another.
These documents were permanently given to SAAC and know one from the current Shelby Automobile Company has asked for them back so let’s put an end to that rumor.
The documents were distributed among the appropriate registrars and this helped build the data base that generates the registry.
None of these documents have been sold , traded or released into any ones hands other than appropriate SAAC officers.
This is why Shelby American Automobiles have held a higher and more stable value than most other Marques.
In with this pile of documentation were several other items including some old canceled checks.
There were so many of them that they were given away for gifts, donations , door prizes and other novel ideas.
A large amount were given back to Carroll Shelby and some have shown up privately for sale on eBay
Despite what every thinks SAAC is not a very profitable situation.
Many people such as my self and even the very officers donate thousands of personal dollars every year to keep SAAC going.
It has gotten so expensive to rent a facility to hold a convention that the club barely breaks even at these events now so there are no HUGE WAGES for SAAC officers.
SAAC has faithfully supported Carroll Shelby for almost 33 years now and this license issue is something Carroll has brought on all by himself.
What I have printed here is fact not rumors or hearsay.
Throughout these last few weeks SAAC has been quite but not asleep they will be making an official statement in the next few days.

[Blazinsaddles]

Again, I hope and think that SAAC can survive but they may have to begin thinking outside of the box a little to do that. SAAC is indeed a club and it exists soley by the involvement (paying of dues and participating in events) of all of it's members. I simply think though that SAAC has become and may have always been somewhat self-serving and we nameless and faceless members simply helped the elite group (upper echelon) see their own goals and ambitions met. I have already said that I will never provide them with information on my car and I know of another gentleman that was a long time paying member until around 10 years ago when the Mother Ship folks teed him off with some of their "no one knows more than me" attitude and he refuses to update them on the 67 GT350, 70 GT500 and 70 GT350 convertble that he owns. I know that he and I only represent 4 cars but how many other folks are doing the same? If this trend continues, SAAC ends up losing one of it's greatest assests, the ownership trail and current status of many of these neat cars. People then may begin questioning why even join if their information is not up to date and comprehensive like it once was.

I recognize this is sour grapes and I am sorry for that but I would like to see SAAC undergo some kind of a facelift and change their ways so that me and other alienated members and ex-members are chomping at the bit to dive back in. Heck, I am even willing to pay more to be involved in a club that I feel exists to serve both a great car and the people that own and/or appreciate them.

In closing, this is my opinion and my opinion only. I am not asking that people join or quit SAAC. I am confident that the organization has helped many, many folks out over the years and I want to see that continue. They have been a vital part of keeping the Shelby name alive through the years but now there is another horse in the corral and they need to learn what it will take to co-exist with it.

[jollyroge]

I am sorry that some people can only extract (self serving) out of years of hard work and there is no elite group or high echelon.
SAAC has really had no competition therefore people do not know how it could possibly be to belong to another club.
It may be a wise decision to try a membership with Team Shelby and let's see if after 32 years they are still around.
SAAC has already co-existed for many years and will continue to do so.