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Thread: New to the forum, I owned CSX3198 before it wrecked in '81

  1. #1

    New to the forum, I owned CSX3198 before it wrecked in '81

    Hi, nice to meet you. The reason I joined this forum is recently I received an email with this link: http://www.shelbyford.com/reg3198.html and asking me if this was mine. I read it and it all looked OK, except my name was misspelled, up to the point when I got rid of it. I bought it in '78 for 57,000 in 80 I used it, and a few other cars, as a partial down payment on a resort in the Fl. keys. Faro Blanco, owned by Eric Ball. He turned right around and sold it to Ray Brown, a very wealthy man, I mean wealthy. He didn't care about anything. He had one of his guys drive it to TX, where he lived. It had 1400 miles on the odometer. I only drove it about 50 miles. On the way it was totaled, ended up in a pine tree. Ray could have cared less. Kelsey never owned it. I knew him for quite a while. He owned a body shop in CT. He introduced me to Les Newell, the guy I got it from. Kelsey also had a reproduction 427 Cobra built for me and a few other people. He went in with me in Faro Blanco as a working partner for 9 years until some bad decisions by him caused the sale. What I want to know is where this other CSX3198 came from. Any help would be appreciated. There is more but not now.

  2. #2
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    Re: New to the forum, I owned CSX3198 before it wrecked in '81

    Best to check with the Shelby American Auto Club registrar at www.saac.com/

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    Re: New to the forum, I owned CSX3198 before it wrecked in '81

    John,

    I agree 100%. You should contact the Shelby Amercian Automobile Club (SAAC).

    Tell them what you know about the car. Look at it from another perspective...

    If you were buying that car today for (fill your outrageous price here). Would you want to know the history of the car? Would you want to know if you had the real car? Would you want to know if there was some question to what parts are original and what parts are not?

    I think you would. You are doing someone a favor by providing this information and possibly helping to resolve the issue.

    Just keep in mind the club just records the information provided to them , they do not make a determination who is telling the truth or who is not.






  4. #4

    Re: New to the forum, I owned CSX3198 before it wrecked in '81

    Quote Originally Posted by Coralsnake View Post
    John,

    I agree 100%. You should contact the Shelby Amercian Automobile Club (SAAC).

    Tell them what you know about the car. Look at it from another perspective...

    If you were buying that car today for (fill your outrageous price here). Would you want to know the history of the car? Would you want to know if you had the real car? Would you want to know if there was some question to what parts are original and what parts are not?

    I think you would. You are doing someone a favor by providing this information and possibly helping to resolve the issue.

    Just keep in mind the club just records the information provided to them , they do not make a determination who is telling the truth or who is not.





    You agree 100% because you think it's not the real one? Or do you just agree that I should pursue it. Eather way what you replied is why I am concerned. Who ever owns it now may not be pleased, but then again he may know. It is interesting to note that I bought the car at a Corvette show in CT. I gave Newell $5,000 as a deposit and returned to FL. Newell went on vacation so he delivered the car to Kelsey for storage but he removed the CSX tag to hold until full payment. I came back to CT some weeks later and paid the remaining $52,000. He gave me the tag and the original bill of sale and some pictures and trophy's from Gus Zuiderman's races. The car was primed gray in the pix. The bill of sale was for $11,000 something and stated not street legal. I never put the CSX tag back on. I traveled a bit so Kelsey kept the car in his barn. Later on I rented a place on CT and kept it there until the purchase of the resort. Anyway I will contact the SAAC. I do have paperwork with Kelseys signature showing the Cobra and some other assets going to the purchase of the resort. I still have the original hardtop in Orlando. And if by some miracle it is the real CSX3198 I could verify it by something no one else would know. Thanks for your responce. We Will see what comes up. Oh and liked the part on the link where it was "stored for eight years" Everthing after my ownership, even that the dates are wrong, is just a sham.

  5. #5

    Re: New to the forum, I owned CSX3198 before it wrecked in '81

    John,
    If you haven't already, you can contact the Cobra Registrar, Ned Scudder, at
    cobraregistrar at saac dot com (substitute @ and .)

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    Re: New to the forum, I owned CSX3198 before it wrecked in '81

    You are reading into my post. I agree you should contact SAAC.

    I did not make a judgement as to what the truth is.

    I also pointed out SAAC will not (at least based on my experience with them). The point is ...if there is more than one version of events, it should be included with the history of the car.

    I would guess you feel the same way or you wouldn't have taken the time to make multiple postings to that effect.

    Besides, not very many people are going to care what I think about the history of a 427 Cobra. I don't have to worry about buying one, unless that British Lottery email I got was real.


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    Re: New to the forum, I owned CSX3198 before it wrecked in '81

    Hi John,
    Your old Cobra very well could have been rebuilt. Back in the late 70's early 80's the Cobras were not worth what they are today so it most likely could have been totaled with very little damage done to it from the Pine Tree. It was probaly sold at the insurance Auction with either a clear Title or a rebuilt Title and who ever bought it rebuilt it.

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    Re: New to the forum, I owned CSX3198 before it wrecked in '81

    John:
    I too am new to this site, however, I also know the current owner of CSX3198 very well and wittnessed Carroll Shelby crawl all over the car in 2005 at the huge Unique Performance auto show in Farmers Branch, TX. Shelby did not find any fault with the body, interior, structure or anything regarding 3198, rather, could not believe his eyes that he was viewing something he hadn't seen in decades. You may want to got to packautomotivemuseum.com and take a look for yourself or just Google CSX3198 and go to it from there. The current owner, Mr. Sam Pack, does his research well when it comes to investing his money into what may have said is one of the largest private collections in the U.S. It just seems strange that with all the auction houses in agreement as to the condition, history, origanility and value of this car, you still take the position you do. I am not making any statements one way or the other, however, what proof do you have (pictures, police reports etc.) that the vehicle you indicate you crashed was indeed this car? Knowing the buy/sale history of this vehicle and spending $57k for a car in the 80's, I know if I had just crashed a one-of-a-kind vehicle I'd have a lot of evidence, photos etc. Please share with us what you hold privately to yourself and clear up this confusion one of us has. Thank You.

    Quote Originally Posted by john hollister View Post
    Hi, nice to meet you. The reason I joined this forum is recently I received an email with this link: http://www.shelbyford.com/reg3198.html and asking me if this was mine. I read it and it all looked OK, except my name was misspelled, up to the point when I got rid of it. I bought it in '78 for 57,000 in 80 I used it, and a few other cars, as a partial down payment on a resort in the Fl. keys. Faro Blanco, owned by Eric Ball. He turned right around and sold it to Ray Brown, a very wealthy man, I mean wealthy. He didn't care about anything. He had one of his guys drive it to TX, where he lived. It had 1400 miles on the odometer. I only drove it about 50 miles. On the way it was totaled, ended up in a pine tree. Ray could have cared less. Kelsey never owned it. I knew him for quite a while. He owned a body shop in CT. He introduced me to Les Newell, the guy I got it from. Kelsey also had a reproduction 427 Cobra built for me and a few other people. He went in with me in Faro Blanco as a working partner for 9 years until some bad decisions by him caused the sale. What I want to know is where this other CSX3198 came from. Any help would be appreciated. There is more but not now.

  9. #9
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    Re: New to the forum, I owned CSX3198 before it wrecked in '81

    It seems that somebody said "on paper" that there are two shelbys with the same number. Need to verify that those two cars actually exist. I saw the town of Farmers Branch in Texas mentioned which is next to Dallas. Now ,,John,,, Let me tell you what NOT TO DO. DO NOT get the Dallas police department involved in this in any way. My 1969 gt500 was stolen in 1982. I found my own car a year later at a mechanic"s shop, called the dallas police,they towed it off saying need to verify numbers. Two weeks later the car vanished. The dallas police gave it back to the mechanic for liens. Went there and got told "what shelby". The stolen car report also vanished. the dallas police are crooked.

  10. #10

    Re: New to the forum, I owned CSX3198 before it wrecked in '81

    Quote Originally Posted by hms View Post
    John:
    I too am new to this site, however, I also know the current owner of CSX3198 very well and wittnessed Carroll Shelby crawl all over the car in 2005 at the huge Unique Performance auto show in Farmers Branch, TX. Shelby did not find any fault with the body, interior, structure or anything regarding 3198, rather, could not believe his eyes that he was viewing something he hadn't seen in decades. You may want to got to packautomotivemuseum.com and take a look for yourself or just Google CSX3198 and go to it from there. The current owner, Mr. Sam Pack, does his research well when it comes to investing his money into what may have said is one of the largest private collections in the U.S. It just seems strange that with all the auction houses in agreement as to the condition, history, origanility and value of this car, you still take the position you do. I am not making any statements one way or the other, however, what proof do you have (pictures, police reports etc.) that the vehicle you indicate you crashed was indeed this car? Knowing the buy/sale history of this vehicle and spending $57k for a car in the 80's, I know if I had just crashed a one-of-a-kind vehicle I'd have a lot of evidence, photos etc. Please share with us what you hold privately to yourself and clear up this confusion one of us has. Thank You.
    If one wanted to reproduce the dragon snake it would be far easier then doing the General Lee, but the rewards would be greater. I bought the car in 78, I have no idea what Ray paid for it when he got from Eric. As to what you or I would do in that situation has nothing to do with Ray. Over the years I knew him the Cobra incident was minor. I got my value from the car when it went to Eric, What happened after that means nothing to me, it's just bogus.

  11. #11

    Re: New to the forum, I owned CSX3198 before it wrecked in '81

    Quote Originally Posted by john hollister View Post
    If one wanted to reproduce the dragon snake it would be far easier then doing the General Lee, but the rewards would be greater. I bought the car in 78, I have no idea what Ray paid for it when he got from Eric. As to what you or I would do in that situation has nothing to do with Ray. Over the years I knew him the Cobra incident was minor. I got my value from the car when it went to Eric, What happened after that means nothing to me, it's just bogus.
    John,

    Let the truth set you free!!! More power to you for bringing out the "real truth!"

  12. #12

    Re: New to the forum, I owned CSX3198 before it wrecked in '81

    I heard it sold recently for quite a bit. I have been contacted recently by a "vintage car detective" who knew the original very well as I had it, minor add on things that no one would notice. Good luck to him.

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