Non-original block

[lnevill]

What is the "right" thing to do regarding a car that does not have the original block? Should one try find a date code correct block and stamp it with the cars VIN? This seems somewhat unethical to me. What is required from a judging point of view? Can a car w/o the original block every be concours correct?

If one does decide to pursue a correct date coded block, what is typical? 1 or 2 months prior to assembly? My car was built Feb 66 so should I be looking for a 5LXX or 5MXX or what?

Thanks in advance for all the help.

Lee

[zrayr]

this has been discussed in depth over at the Hi-Po Mustang forum.

http://www.hipomustang.com/

In my view, stamping VIN or serial numbers on the engine may not be fraud, but it is, or will be on down the line, a mis-representation. That makes it not ethical. Even if the replacement block has the correct date code, it still is not the original engine to the car. And, rightly or wrongly, a car having the original engine will be worth more.

So the temptation exists to pass off the car as having the original engine when in fact it has a replacement engine.

My view may be in the minority.

Z. Ray

[66gtk]

I agree with ZRAYR 100%. However, if I was a buyer, I would not pass over a car without the original motor.

[zrayr]

Originally Posted by 66gtk

I agree with ZRAYR 100%. However, if I was a buyer, I would not pass over a car without the original motor.

neither would I. But I'd "try" to bargain on the price a bit based on the non-original engine.

Z. Ray

[patty.dilabio]

Hi to all! This subject was deeply discussed a while ago in Mustang Monthly and they were quickly reminded about how laws are written with specific guidelines on number tampering.It is a federal offense in many states /countries to alter,add and or modify any number that an original or the original manufacturer placed on or stamped in a sold piece of merchandise.It is fraud and is a good way to earn a trip to jail.As with anything collectable,a clean history is the most valueable to others.To answer your question,what you should do is provide proof as to what the current engine is, document anything and everything you have done to it from the day you bought it,and then enjoy the car!If you are out to win a real concours show--save your money and buy a car that qualifies!

[68GT500-Aussieland]

It depends at what level of concours you want to enter your car in as well.

Over here we have "thoroughbred class" - best of the best where the car date codes, VIN numbers are checked thoroughly, NOS parts etc.

"concours class" is more about the car being correct as it was built.

I dont see any problem in sourcing a correct date code block if concours is important. Find one around 30 to a maximum of 60 days prior to the completion date of your car. Have a look at some date codes on your sheetmetal. This'll give a guide.

Rohan

[zrayr]

Originally Posted by 68GT500-Aussieland

It depends at what level of concours you want to enter your car in as well.

Over here we have "thoroughbred class" - best of the best where the car date codes, VIN numbers are checked thoroughly, NOS parts etc.

"concours class" is more about the car being correct as it was built.

I dont see any problem in sourcing a correct date code block if concours is important. Find one around 30 to a maximum of 60 days prior to the completion date of your car. Have a look at some date codes on your sheetmetal. This'll give a guide.

Rohan

I should clarify, there is nothing wrong with sourcing a date-correct block. But there is something shady about stamping serial numbers on it so it looks like it was the original block that came with the car.

Z. Ray

[vernonestes]

Originally Posted by zrayr

I should clarify, there is nothing wrong with sourcing a date-correct block. But there is something shady about stamping serial numbers on it so it looks like it was the original block that came with the car.

Z. Ray

I would have to say that stamping the vin in the block is not just shady but completely wrong. Even if you were to eventually sell the cars as an non #S matching car, it would still lead to misrepresentation down the road. It screws up the market for the car.

If the car does not have its original engine.....it isnt a thoroughbred.....period.

Best Regards,
Vern

[Bob Gaines]

If you are concerned about concours competition I will tell you that with the short period of time normally given to judges to judge a class there are usually so many other issues with a judged car that the owner is not aware of or forgotten about, the VIN number on the block is usually the last thing that is looked at or thought of . I see it all the time a owner will get caught up in some small detail and forget about all the other more visible problems. I think the most important thing is to prioritize the things on a show car to fix which the most important are the things people see the most. For instance it wouldn't make sense to be concerned about your wiring under the dash if the chrome on your bumper was weak. Then work down the list to the things that are the least seen. in most cases the VIN on a engine block is one of the things that is least seen. I am not saying the VIN on the block is not important but in the context of concours competition there are are a lot more things that are much more noticeable that a car owner can have points deducted for. If you have solved all of the other problems or almost all of the other problems of your car then I would worry about the VIN on your block.

[SFM6S087]

Bob,

I'm guessing from what I've read that in concours judging a certain number of points are deducted from a perfect score for each deviation noted. If that's correct, can you give us point of reference for the concours value of a non-matching block? You know. Like maybe you'd deduct 10 points for the non-matching block, 5 points for poor crome on rear bumper, 12 points for reproduction seat belts? Whatever. You get the idea. I'm not asking for a complete list. Just a few items that would have the same general point value.

Thanks,
Steve

[shelby6t5]

If the thread is going in that direction (points, etc) Perhaps someone wants to start another about the judging / points issue in order to keep this relevant.

Mike

[lnevill]

Bob Gaines,

Thank you very much for the reply. That is exactly the type of information I was hoping for!

The block in my car is stamped with the SFM serial number, not the ford VIN. I'm thinking the person who replaced the block knew enough/cared enough to not try and fool anybody, but still put something there to match the car with the block even though the date codes do not match.

thanks Bob!

Lee

[Bob Gaines]

The judging criteria is different depending on what group your are showing with. Each group has their own numbering system. Each group has different class that a car be judged in. SAAC has 2 MCA has I think 4 or more. Team Shelby is yet to be defined. MCA has a online judging guide which give speciffics on amounts deducted for what. SAAC has a online one in the works. I think a new thread would be approprieate for this line of discussion. Jeff S. would be a good one to elaborate. Jeff maybe you can start a new thread on this subject.

[Snakepit]

Originally Posted by Bob Gaines

T........... I think a new thread would be approprieate for this line of discussion. Jeff S. would be a good one to elaborate. Jeff maybe you can start a new thread on this subject.

Agreed (since this one is getting off thread) and its best that someone with a specific question start it, then we can all comment and discuss.

Since this site is a bit more active that the SAAC site currently ... I've got another idea for a thread since we're "off season"