What would you do? SAAC has check mark

[Racer1]

on my car's history denoting "SOME QUESTIONS REMAIN regarding this cars history, authenticity or chain or ownership. Additional information is being sought." I have provided serial #'s ect. to SAAC. All #'s are correct and located in the correct locations. I can find no evidence of them being re-stamped or welded in. Title is correct and clear. History of ownership is pretty complete. I have owned the car way before the 1997 registry was published, Problem, SACC say's car was SEEN and REPORTED to them to be to rusty to repair sometime in the past so assumption @ SAAC is it has to be a rebody. SAAC will not tell me who, provided this information so I can contact and try to get more information. SAAC can only speculate and will not divulge ANY info on who or whom the rusted reports came from. A magazine article that came with the car written in the 80's states the car was restored around that time and Webers carb's were installed, this is also noted in the 1997 registry. This was the way 'with Webers' I received the car. Along with it came original 715 CFM Holley and Shelby manifold. All Shelby parts are present and on the car with the exception of the original engine block which is not a # match. I replaced the engine with a Ford 302 aluminum head crate motor, also replaced the Detroit locker with a limited slip because the locker drove me nut's and I replaced the correct 65 date coded Koni shocks with new as old were worn out. The car is no cherry but a decent condition older restoration. A rep at SAAC suggested I retain a certain person to come look at the car and give me opinion. I'am very leary of this because anyone SAAC recomends would come with a bias in my opinion. So any suggestions ? Thank you.

[doc]

Racer1 a couple of questions: Did you contact SAAC before you bought the vehicle or was it after you found the disparity? SAAC does not authencate cars they only report information as it is recieve from members or other sources as was explaned to me. I know firsthand because I got into an ugly court case involving a sale of a Shelby that was supposed to be original. When SAAC was contacted they informed me that they had recieved information that the vehicle had been parted out. No other information was available other than that so I conducted a more detail inspection. I found that the drivers door of the car had been replaced with a 1968 mustang, the undercarriage heavily coated in rustproof material and enough nuisances to raise a doubt about it's originality. Bottom line is I lost my deposit because the seller was able to prove it was a geniue Shelby but not an original as advertised. Seems the seller got a SAAC representative to write a letter verifying it's authenticity. Still don't know how he pulled that off but I dropped the case and bought somewhere else. Probably helped that the seller and authenticator are buddies. You may want to consider hiring one of those guys who advertised in the Snake Bite who authenicate Shelbys. If the car is legit you have a written report which you can dispute the information held by SAAC. Nobody wants a peeing contest so if you have indisputable truth I am sure the Register would want the correct information reflected. If there are some issues with the car, better to know what they are and have them identified and documented for any potential new buyer. Just a thought

Doc

[Racer1]

Thank you for you reply Doc, is as appreciated. No, I did not contact SAAC prior to purchase. I did however request a photo copy of the title which I checked out, a history which I received and purchased from a reputable dealer who I also checked out prior to purchase. When I purchased the car Shelby's were not exactly a high dollar car compared to many others I was considering. To be honest I realized SAAC existed but did not realize they disseminated negative information based on anonymous sources which they will not reveal and then that anonymous information would be filed as Gospel. Saying that, I do realize SAAC has/does provide invaluable information to the public and for that they are to be commended. I'm in contact now with an individual to help straighten out the situation, positive or negative. I do not know if he will be recognized by SAAC or not. I guess I had better find out. BUT a fact, a BIG fact like in your case is it really bothers me with SAAC's 'INFO' on the "parted out" car you were considering purchasing was in fact INCORRECT and then made good by a letter by a SAAC Rep verifying it's authenticity and the seller and SAAC authenticator are/were buddies. That is very disconcerting to say the least. It would be very helpful for SAAC and it's membership develop and maintain a list of approved authenticators. Again Doc thank you for sharing your experience.

[TJinSA]

SAAC having old, flawed information isn't unusual, but they're also not cast in stone. I've got a couple of personal stories for you.

Around 1981, I looked at a car in San Antonio, they had information indicating it had been badly wrecked-- nothing more. I was familiar with the '65-6 Shelbys. The car had nearly all the correct stuff, but... an 8" rear diff-- Original hood, serial number plate, engine, tranny, Tach and steering wheel. I crawled around the car, but all the signs indicated the 8" was original. The owner refused to allow me to look under the VIN tag, but allowed me to remove ennough of the fender bolts to massage a rubbing of one of the hidden VINs. It was a 'C' code car. He had owned the car for a couple of years, and paid fair to more-than fair market price for it. I passed all my original findings on to SAAC from my original inspection. If I recall correctly, he wanted about $6500 for the car. He turned down my offer for $3k. The car ended up making the rounds around South Texas, and the last I heard ('99) it had been RE-rebodied and someone was wanting $12k for it.

The car I currently own, 6S296, was well known to me back to '78, located in San Antonio. When I first read through the SAAC registry in '82-3 it was listed as being one of two consequtive serial numbers owned by a fellow in Northern Illinois. The friend of mine who owned the car back then had reported his ownership of the car to them. When I bought the car in '87, I was able to track down the ownership line to the second owner, and forwarded all that information on to SAAC. I may be mistaken, but I think only in the last edition was the Ilinois connection stricken from the record.

Founded by enthusiasts, it was only through the networking of the enthusiasts that histories of the cars has been put together, however flawed that process can be. Haven been in the hobby for 30 years I've seen all sorts of cars purported to be "Shelbys", and I'm sure SAAC reps have seen 10 times that and more. I'd term SAAC a repository of some information, not a universal clearing house. In today's letigious society, and the the kind of money involved I can see how they'd be advised against releasing some information. As in any Marque, the pedigree of a car takes time and irrefutable evidence in the face of not having a clear line of proveyance.

In the large number of members in SAAC, I'm sure you can find cancers. I gave two 9k '66 Cobra tachs to a "reputible member" for repair of the end connections and got back two paper bags of loose pieces obviously used as sources for parts. I know of a '67 GT350 chassis in Tennessee that's rusted and bashed so badly hardly a panel can be saved. A "long-term SAAC member in good standing" currently owns that "fully restored" S/N, and lives about 30 miles from where the true car chassis currently rests. The good member threatened legal action when the junkyard that owns the wreck was preparing the chassis for transport after selling it. The sale to the party intersted in restoring the hulk was cancelled.

In the case of your car, where ownership of the car is not in dispute, I don't think a SAAC rep inspection would be suspect or open to a conflict of interest. Perhaps cooordinate with the state rep to inspect it at the same time as an independent inspector looks at the car. While they're clammering over it, get photographs of all significant parts and structures indicative that your chassis is an original and where it may have been repaired and/or damaged.

[doc]

TJinSA, you are right on Having the State Rep and a independant non interested party inspect the car is the best way to get to the truth. Documenting the facts leaves an auditable trail and means more than tribal pass-down which can be distorted a millon ways from Sunday. Personally if it bothers you about the check mark, put it to bed once and for all. If it turns out the car is a re-body, set the record straight so any future buyer will not have to go through ordeal. Re-bodies are not a sin. There a lot more of them out than some people know about including a few famous ones !! How much of the original car that remains is a matter of question and I don't want to get into a discussion about what part or percentage of a car can be replaced and still be consider geniune. That was the reason why I LOSS THE COURT CASE in the beginning. As far as the court I dealt with, if it is wearing the Vin Number on the title it must be the car "End of Case" !! I think you need to check with the SAAC Register on their interpretation but don't expect them to put it in writing. They are very careful because of the implications associated with renedering an opinion that could be used in a legal proceeding.

Doc

[roddster]

"Additional information being sought" 'Nuff said. Send them what you have and see what happens.