Barnfind the owner says this is a 1965 shelby carry over? R code?

[61vettedad]

a few years ago I found a barn and storage containers with several old cars and trucks inside, not for sale. December 2012 I got a call that the property was being foreclosed and they were moving everything off the property. see the pictures and story here: http://www.barnfinds.com/lawnmower-r...nd/#more-10226

Yesterday 2-2-2012 I went to the new location and talked to the owner, still not for sale but he showed us his cars and trucks and told us the stories... which has lead me to this forum.

The owner claims one of the mustangs is a 1965 GT350 crossover, he bought it in 1982 for 2000 and never touch it again... the pictures you see are the way he got it. He said it was bought new in California by a guy in the military, he raced it though out CA and was transferred to Hunter Army Base in Savannah GA. it was raced and dragged and turned into a gasser with a solid axle front end. then changed back at some point and the owner bought it in 1982 for $2000.00 with plans to restore it someday but it has not happened yet.

The owner says the car was originally white with black interior he said "carry over and talked about the side windows, it has Kelsey Hayes front disk brakes, original 4 speed still in car, motor is long gone, he says he still has the valve covers and air cleaner and boxes of parts.

just wanted to see what this forum thinks about it?


[IMG]h

[patty.dilabio]

Hi,
This looks like quite a collection.We would need to see better pictures of the car to know what it really is.From the pictures provided I would think it is a customized Mustang,done back in the 1980's....very doubtful it could be a Shelby.If you can find out more information like a V.I.N. number,we can tell you much more.It is better to do as much research as possible as your next step.Thanks for posting a good barnfind.
P.D.

[61vettedad]

here are some others that he has, and more inside the storage containers that I have not seen yet. all the fastbacks where under cover for 30+ years until recently, but owner says he plans to build a place to store them.








here were some of the engines he had


1940 truck that belonged to Henry Ford and he got it from the Ford Plantation, Richmond Hill GA

[SFM6S087]

The 1966 car in your original post does not appear to be a Shelby. There are lots of things about the car that are not correct for a Shelby - particularly a carryover. I'll just mention one. That car has brackets on the shock towers that the firewall braces bolt to on regular Mustangs. A Shelby would not have those brackets since they came with the one piece export brace. If you want to be 100% certain, jot down the Ford VIN & contact the SAAC 1965-66 registrar.

[OVERRIDE]

It also does not have the reinforcement on the cowl for the x port brace.

[61vettedad]

I went back today and took a picture of the VIN plate inside the drivers side door, can anyone decode it? sorry it is hard to read
body = 63
Interior = A
Color = looks like an "M"
Trim = 26
Date = 21K
DSO = 71
VIN = 5R09C149398

[mrmustang]

I went back today and took a picture of the VIN plate inside the drivers side door, can anyone decode it?

And there in front of you is your confirmation that not even the door data tag is off a real Shelby

[61vettedad]

thanks for pointing that out, I am not a mustang guy or even ford guy but I found a bunch of fastbacks and took what the owner told me and posted it here. It would be nice if someone here would educate or tell what to look for on all these cars?

[56ace]

thanks for pointing that out, I am not a mustang guy or even ford guy but I found a bunch of fastbacks and took what the owner told me and posted it here. It would be nice if someone here would educate or tell what to look for on all these cars?

Thanks for posting the pics as I always like to see old cars that have lived full lives even if they are not in the best of shape currently. As for some of the things that ID the one car as not an early Shelby.
All '65 and '66 Shelbys started life with a VIN of 5R09K or 6R09K, but then had a Shelby VIN assigned and a tag placed on the driver's side inner fender. Additionally, the door tag was removed and so the early Shelby's did not have the tag you show the picture of. The tag in your pic shows a VIN with a C as the 5th digit which translates to a 2 barrel 289 instead of the coveted "K" HiPo motor that came in all of the early Shelbys and other Hi-Po Mustangs. Other things that point out that car as not a Shelby are the 2 braces pointing back towards the firewall from the shock tower mounts, the rear GT350 emblem on the wrong side, and the unequal spacing of the export brace mount holes at upper center of the firewall. There are also many other little things such as '66 instrument cluster with a '65 dash, no dash tach or pod, etc , but the tag you showed with the VIN is the definitive proof. That being said, if the car was raced in the '60s and a person could trace its history, it would still be a cool car to have.

Jay

[SFM6S087]

It would be nice if someone here would educate or tell what to look for on all these cars?

That’s a really big a task to accomplish in a forum setting. Most of us have studied these cars for years and still don’t know it all. And even the “experts” disagree on some points. We can answer specific questions, but imparting our sum total knowledge in a handful of posts is not possible. However, if you post pictures & questions about one car at a time you may get some useful answers - like the nice, detailed paragraph Jay wrote you about the ’65 Mustang that was misrepresented as a GT350.

If you really want to learn a lot of this for yourself, I suggest you start by reading a few books, attending some shows & events and keeping active on these forums. For Shelbys, a good book to start with is “The Definitive Shelby Mustang Guide: 1965-1970” by Greg Kolasa. I’m not sure what the best current book is for Mustangs in general. Perhaps someone else will chime in with a recommendation for that.

Good luck and have fun. Come back often and ask all the questions you want. Pretty soon you’ll find that you’re the one answering questions for other new enthusiasts.

Steve

[61vettedad]

Ok so I went back to the mustangs and brought this print out and showed the owner that the car is not a GT350, he says I misunderstood him and the car was purchased from Ford to be used as a "guineapig" at the Shelby corporation for testing etc, The military guy worked at the Shelby corporation and when he got news of his transfer to Savannah GA in 1971, Carol Shelby gave the old test car to him. He always asked to buy it and showed interest in it because it sat there like an old junk car since they were done using it and body styles had changed. will the VIN number confirm any of this? or books etc?

btw don't shoot the messenger

[SFM6S087]

No messenger shooting here. If I’m reading that tag correctly the VIN on that car is 5R09C149398. Let’s look at that in more detail.

When Shelby acquired cars to either build as GT350s or to use as prototypes/mules/guinea pigs, they picked K-code cars with the 289 HiPo engines to work with. As already mentioned, the “C” in that VIN stands for 289 2-bbl engine. Strike One.

The Ford VINs for the GT350s are a huge secret to try to prevent a clone from being accepted as an authentic Shelby, but I am familiar with a handful of them. The sequence number of “149398” is well ahead of any 1965 GT350 I’m aware of. So that car was built at San Jose prior to the first of the 1965 GT350s. Could it have been one of the first prototypes or guinea pigs? I seriously doubt it. As mentioned before, Shelby always picked HiPo cars to work with. And the first of the GT350s (prototype and otherwise) are well documented and accounted for. Strike Two.

Carroll Shelby never gave anything away. He might sell something cheap to get it out of the way, but he wouldn’t give it away. That part of the story may be the most damning. Strike Three. You’re Out!

When you combine the above info with the numerous details about the car that don’t add up I think it’s a clear case of misrepresentation. Perhaps the current owner was told that story and really believes it, but the facts just don’t add up. As is commonly repeated here on the forum, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. In this case, the proof is not there. What you have is a 1965 Mustang that started life as a 2-bbl 289 car and ended up with a lot of Shelby stuff bolted onto it… and an interesting word-of-mouth story.

Now you have my opinion. To be absolutely certain you need to run this by Howard Pardee. He’s the 1965-66 SAAC Registrar and has those secret Ford VINs. He won’t give out the actual VINs, but will tell you if yours is on the list. Email 65-66registrar@saac.com. Maybe there’s a missing prototype out there that’s being kept a secret to minimize the chance of a fake being created. Sure, that’s not likely, but why not shoot Howard an email and be certain; then come back and tell us what you learned.

Steve

[roddster]

There is already enough evidence that this is NOT a real Shelby. However, some of the parts might be. (Hood, side scoops)
Never look at the door number. That tag will even state that the numbers THERE are not for registration. Doors can be unbolted and interchanged between cars. Are there two rivet holes near the drivers side front fender rail VIN number? If so, then MAYBE. But, if that vin has a "C" for the fifhed digit, then all it is, is a common Mustang.
And, I'd suggest that the owner of all of this cool stuff is about thirty years too late as far as building anything to store the cars in. He was "going to fix them up....some day."

[gjz30075]

I agree Roddster. It looks like that area was scraped clean (now rusted) looking for a vin. Also not mentioned is the drum brake MC.

Greg Z

[rshelby]

And, I'd suggest that the owner of all of this cool stuff is about thirty years too late as far as building anything to store the cars in. He was "going to fix them up....some day."

My bet is the cars are going to continue to rot...no building, no fixing them up.

[BillH]

My bet is the cars are going to continue to rot...no building, no fixing them up.

And it happens all the time. Most likely the cars will either end up in an estate sale or just a trip to the crusher. There was a guy locally that had a very unique and rare 57 Mercury convertible Indy pace car. It sat under a tarp for at least 20 years that I know of, he wouldn't even discuss selling it. I happened to see it going down the freeway on the back of a car hauler. He had died and his family couldn't sell it fast enough.

[Coralsnake]

The biggest lie in the book is....its a one off prototype. Heard it a hundred times before. The rule is simple extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. I suspect the owner has absolutely no evidence of his story, so it remains just that.....an unsubstaintiated story.